Saturday, December 8, 2018

40k - Disappointed

The leaks today emerged of points adjustments in Chapter Approved. You can see them here

The changes are generally underwhelming. I was expecting a nerf of some of the major "offenders" but in all truth that hasn't happened. For my Dark Eldar list I am unaffected and it has got cheaper for me to add Eldrad to "help" them out.

However, that is not the biggest disappointment. As a TO I check a lot of lists. I can tell you from experience that I do not see the humble Tactical Marine in anything but a small percentage of lists. They needed a drop. At least two points for them and the vanilla CSM. There was nothing.

I'm not one for conspiracy theories nor tinfoil hats but.......

A lot of things that GW make in the Space Marine/CSM range got a drop. Terminators, Cult Marines, things GW makes discrete models for. Tacticals didn't.

Can only say that this adds weight to theories that they are on their way out to be replaced by Primaris. Can't give the customer any reason to buy the old pattern can we?


  1. I would have been very surprised if Chapter Approved gave us a decent balance pass. The track record has not been great.

    I enjoyed the 8th edition switch to save modifiers and extended woundlines, but they still haven't figured out how to weight the following:

    3+ save infantry (consistently overpointed)
    Anything with multishot 2Damage (consistently underpointed)
    Vehicles/Monsters/Titanics suffer from goldilocks syndrome. 1/3 are too cold, 1/3 are too hot, 1/3 are just right. So 2/3rds of the centrepiece models won't get seen in a 'competitive' environment.

    2Damage hasn't been changed. Heavy Burst cannons(Tau), Avenger Gatling Cannons(Knights), Disintegrators and Reaper Launchers(Aeldari), Overcharged Plasma(Imperium/Chaos). Plasma is not on the same level as the rest but has received a slight points drop. 2D is wildly effective against anything Primaris, Bike, Terminator, Xenos elite and 1kSons/Deathguard cult troops so none of those get a look in, and it's still very passable against multiwound and 1W infantry due to rate of fire. No reason it won't keep dominating army builds.

    Couple of Nurgley observations;
    - Myphitic Blight-Haulers went down 25 points each. To field a unit of three was an eye-watering 426 points, now a much more palatable 351. They have all the right keywords (Nurgle, Daemon, Heretic Astartes) to play nice with psypowers and auras from across the Chaos range.
    - Plaguebearers and Nurglings stayed the same cost. The Spoilpox Scrivener went up 20 points. Still a great character screen and space/objective grabber, but more expensive now to get the plague bearers to run around faster and actually do damage.
    - Plague Drones went up 6 to 40 pts ea, making a kitted unit of 9 jump from 331 to 385. The nerf to 'Fly' in the assault phase already killed much of the practical use of this unit off.
    - Great Unclean One dropped 50 points to 275. Still only narrowly useful for casting important powers with a +1, and hitting Monster/Vehicle/Titanics on the ground that come near you. Since currently most preferred heavies either sit back behind a screen and shoot, or fly up on terrain and shoot, the GUO remains of questionable value.
    -min/maxed Plague Marines (5 models, 3 Plasmaguns) dropped from 124 to 113. 300 points on the dot to stick two of them in a Rhino. Not something you'd take alone, but could work to fill out a second DG battalion alongside a Nurgle Daemons one.

    The weirdest thing with Codex Marines is the 'humble tactical marine' versus veterans with storm shields/storm bolters. 13->18 points for twice the firepower, 2A, and a 3+ invulnerable save. Bolter Tactical Marines are really only worth putting in an army at ~8 points a model on their current statline, not 13. As you say Pete, if Primaris didn't exist and Tacticals had new models (i.e the Primaris ones) I'm sure we'd see a more realistic points level for them.

  2. That's a great summary Courtney. I think there is no doubt now that the Tactical Marine will be actively supplanted by Primaris. It is the easiest revenue stream for GW to tap into. You will still have some specialist TSM but I suspect Primaris Devastators aren't far away.

    Like you I can't believe Disintegrators weren't bumped up at least 5 points in price. They are mathematically better against everything bar T7

  3. I don't think tactical marines have been a feature in lists since 3rd or 4th edition when you had to take them or scouts.

    Interesting that cultists went up a point in chaos armies so are now more expensive than the guardsmen they mirror.

    I think there have been a lot of champions of other units in the community, people want to use terminators and other elite units people don't talk about longing to use tactical marines. For a unit that is the backbone of stories they have long suffered from can't shoot, can't fight can dance a little syndrome. even in Epic they were always overlooked for devastators and assault marines.

    what next marines begging with signs that say "Will kill xenos for food"? I agree with Courtney, a tactical marine and a scout need to be 1-2 points more than a veteran guardsman. they have a slightly better save and a slighly better gun, but you would expect the same points cost of guard veterans to kill a squad of marines because of their access to special weapons.

  4. Honestly with things being multi wound I reckon all Space Marines could have kept their point costs but got +1 Wound, this wont happen with Primaris being the new 2 wound marines though.

  5. GW are idiots with their costing in so many areas. Cultists went up because they were being used all the time, but that doesn't mean they were good, they're just better than the alternative. Neurothrope for Tyranids is another example . You see a lot of them because there are no alternatives worth taking in an HQ slot under 150 points. That doesn't mean the Neurothrope was too good and needed an increase

  6. U use Eldrad?
    Vect would be so dissapointed